Anti-GMO and anti-vaccination campaigns – two faces of the same movement?

Reading this piece in the Guardian – about the successful campaign by the pro-science community to get the Tribeca Film Festival to drop an anti-vaccine documentary directed by disgraced ‘MMR-autism’ doctor Andrew Wakefield – my interest was sparked by this paragraph towards the end:

By Monday, conspiracy theorist websites were portraying the decision to pull Vaxxed as an act of censorship perpetuated by the “vaccine mafia”. Wakefield and the film’s producer Del Bigtree put out a statement saying: “We have just witnessed yet another example of the power of corporate interests censoring free speech, art, and truth.”

The link to ‘conspiracy theorist websites’ goes through to the infamous anti-GMO website NaturalNews, run by the self-styled ‘Health Ranger’ Mike Adams. (I declare an interest here: I was once accused by Adams, along with other pro-science communicators, of being a ‘Nazi Monsanto collaborator’ and targeted for assassination.)

It seems that NaturalNews is the standard bearer for Andrew Wakefield: it is now running banner ads for readers to get tickets to the rescheduled showing of ‘Vaxxed’ in a different theatre in New York under the heading ‘The Truth Cannot be Censored!’ This got me thinking of the expanding overlap between the anti-GMO and anti-vaccination movements. 

There is plenty of evidence that many of the central characters are the same people – united by Big Pharma/Big Ag/Big Government conspiracy theories and a fetishisation of all things ‘natural’. There is also a lot of money being made by outright quackery, if the ads and other clickbait on the various websites is to be believed.

Admittedly, Mike Adams is at the extreme end even of the anti-GMO movement. One of his recent articles alleges that the Oregon community college mass murderer Christopher Mercer “was likely vaccine-damaged with autism spectrum disorder”. Adams believes, according to another NaturalNews article, that the billionnaire philanthropist Bill Gates is a “globalist eugenics promoter” who believes in “eliminating the ‘undesirable’ people from the planet, leaving only a superior race in charge”.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has become a favourite target for anti-vaccination scaremongers. (The BMGF funds the Cornell Alliance for Science, where I’m a visiting fellow.) These critics are not necessarily on the ideological extremes either – a recent report (PDF) by the charity Global Justice Now (formerly the World Development Movement), as well as the usual screeds against BMGF funding of GMOs, rather surprisingly devotes an entire chapter to criticisms of the Foundation’s polio eradication and child vaccine programs. Am I the only one to find it shocking that a supposedly mainstream UK charity focused on global development opposes the international eradication of polio?

The Global Justice Now report was given play in the media (e.g. this piece in the UK’s Independent) – but it seems no-one flicked through to the anti-vaccination chapter towards the end. This includes a long section about the administration of a supposedly poisonous vaccine in Chad:

Within hours, according to the VacTruth report, 106 children began to suffer from headaches, vomiting, severe uncontrollable convulsions and paralysis.

So what is VacTruth (caption: ‘Your Child, Your Choice’)? Here’s a screengrab.

Screengrab of VacTruth.com, 31 March 2016You’ll get the idea. Why is the media taking seriously a report by a charity that uses fringe anti-vaxx websites as a supposedly credible source? (Global Justice Now tries to wriggle out of this by stating at the end that it has been “unable to validate or investigate further” these “stories”. In which case, it is clearly irresponsible to repeat them.)

Update, 31 March 2016

Global Justice Now has acknowledged over Twitter that it was inappropriate to carry anti-vaxxer myths in its report, and has promised to update its report on the BMGF with an erratum. Exchange below:

I welcome this acknowledgement and look forward to reading the amended report. /end update

But anti-vaccine conspiracy theorising is seen right across the anti-GMO movement. For example, the most prominent GMO labelling campaign group, so-called ‘US Right to Know’ (which has harassed numerous public-sector biotechnology scientists with malicious FoIA requests), is funded to the tune of $234,000 by the Organic Consumers Association. OCA carries whole sections on its website opposing vaccinations. Here’s what it says in its Health Issues / Swine & Bird Flu section:

“It is important to know how to protect your children and yourself with homeopathic and natural alternatives to vaccines to build your natural immunity to the swine flu.”

OCA also prominently features stories promoting Zika virus conspiracy theories, including one back on 30 January with this bizarre preamble:

Okay, boys, here’s what we do. We’ve got this old virus called Zika. It’s been around for 60 years that we know of. It never caused anything serious… So let’s build up Zika into a terrifying killer. Get our PR folks moving. Spread some money around. You know, the usual. And we make out on the back-end with a Zika vaccine.

Tellingly, the Organic Consumers Association is also a member of the ‘Health Liberty coalition‘, which includes the National Vaccine Information Center (an anti-vaccination network), Consumers for Dental Choice (campaigning against mercury in dental fillings), Mercola.com (see below), the Institute for Responsible Technology (another anti-GMO group led by Jeffrey Smith, a former dance instructor and yogic flyer) and the Flouride Action Network (opposing water flouridation).

With thanks to Chuck LaskerAnother prominent anti-GMO funder, the US-based millionnaire quack doctor Dr Mercola, also features anti-vaxxer theories, amidst the usual tropes about GMO dangers and attempts to sell various fake pills to the credulous. Mercola has contributed millions to GMO labelling campaigns in different states, and features in this long and tedious video pledging a fundraising drive to assist the Organic Consumers Association, funder in turn of US Right to Know.

Many of the leading lights in the anti-GMO scene are heavily invested in alternative health theories. The UK based activist Dr Mae Wan Ho, for example, combines her struggle against biotechnology with consistent promotion of the long-debunked autism-MMR theory advanced by Andrew Wakefield. Dr Ho was also the originator of a Zika conspiracy theory prominently covered by the Ecologist magazine, which I took apart in this Guardian piece.

Dr Ho publishes under the banner of the unfortunately-named ISIS – standing for Institute of Science in Society. She has co-published with many of the anti-GMO scene’s leading lights, and makes no secret of her ultimate agenda: her most recent screed (PDF) is simply called ‘Ban GMOs Now – Health and Environmental Hazards’. A long article by Ho published in February claimes that Wakefield’s findings on MMR vaccine and autism have been “amply replicated worldwide” and other common anti-vaxxer talking points.

I could go on – Stephanie Seneff, a ‘Senior Research Scientist at MIT’ (a claim that has been challenged) has become celebrated in anti-GMO circles for promoting theories about glyphosate causing everything from cancer to Alzheimers. (Here she is talking to Jeffrey Smith.) Seneff also believes vaccines cause all sorts of health problems. She writes:

“The aluminum in the Hepatitis B vaccine is a likely source of the association found between this vaccine and autism… The elderly are greatly encouraged to renew their flu shots every single year, and I think this is another major factor that is steadily increasing their risk to Alzheimer’s disease. About half of the flu vaccines administered contain mercury as a preservative, and mercury is probably the most toxic heavy metal known.”

The Global GMO-Free Coalition, which prominently features Vandana Shiva and OCA director Ronnie Cummins on its steering committee, also includes Sayer Ji, from GreenMedInfo, a website opposing virtually every aspect of modern healthcare and seeking to replace it with various herbal and ‘naturopathic’ alternatives. One recent article featured on the website claims that the AIDS pandemic was caused by the administration of oral polio vaccine, neatly combining two killer conspiracy theories into one.

This raises all sorts of interesting questions. How do Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and other serious environmental groups who still actively campaign against GMOs feel about being de-facto aligned with these dangerous quacks and conspiracy theorists? I’ve never seen any statement from them condemning anti-vaccine statements from their anti-GMO allies. Also: why do people keep taking anti-GMO activist groups like USRTK seriously despite these overt funding links to anti-vaccine campaigners? (Full disclosure: USRTK has criticised the Cornell Alliance for Science, where I’m a visiting fellow.) And it would also be reassuring to see an explicit disavowal of the Organic Consumers Association from the serious side of the organic movement – those who are in organic because they want to learn more about sustainable agriculture, rather than fight ideological battles against science and modernity in general.

My assessment is that the anti-GMO scene is getting more extreme as it becomes increasingly marginalised in the mainstream discourse, and that as the scientific community gets better organised in combating its myths and conspiracy theories – as has happened with combating anti-vaxxers – this tendency will only increase. Expect more AIDS denialism, vaccine-autism scaremongering and anti-GMO activism, all increasingly under the same banner.

133 Comments

  1. Clyde Davies

    I’d definitely check you bed for horses’ heads after this article.

    I drew the parallel between the anti-vaxxers and the anti-GMO movement years ago, when I observed that the arguments were practically identical. Anti-vaxxers first came to prominence in 1885 – iof you can believe that – and their primary objection was to the idea of ‘foreign’ biological material being introduced into a human being. Their prescription for combatting disease was a return to cleanliness and Godliness, or in other words, ‘natural’ methods.

    Sounds a lot like the ideas behind the organic movement, if you ask me. The following article makes fascinating reading:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/victorian-anti-vaccinators-personal-belief-exemption/398321/

    Of course, there is a technical distinction: the anti-GMO crowd aren’t really putting anybody at risk, just impeding progress. Anti-vaxxers however put themselves and others, especially their children, in harm’s way. If they only risked their own lives, then it would the the ideal way of chlorinating the human gene pool.

    Reply
    1. ssl

      Of course the organic movement is putting people at risk. They are very busy forcing what they call ‘traditional’ farming methods (read organic) unto the world’s poorest and denying them the benefits of GMOs, thereby causing untold suffering, disease, malnutrition, hunger and death. Suggested reading: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674033474

    2. Clyde Davies

      I’m thinking more of immediate, acute risk. But your point is basically sound. And the precautionary principle that governs their lives doesn’t seem to apply to the wholesale abandonment of proven conventional farming and the adoption of organic methods.

    3. Scott

      The Organic Consumers Association (OCA) is a non-profit advocacy group for organic agriculture based in Finland, Minnesota. It was formed in 1998 in the wake of strong opposition by members of the organic industry and consumers of organic food to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s controversial initial version of their proposed regulations for organic food.

      And here you see the problem. You are judging organic agriculture based on a consumers group that actually opposes science based organic production. Why would it surprise you that a wack job extremist consumer group that actually opposes organic agriculture would be also wack job anti vaxxers and wack job homeopaths?

      I am not particularly fond of OMRI either. I think GMOs should, given certain criteria, be allowed in organic production. But why judge organic agriculture based on an extremist fringe group that actually voluntarily rejected organic in the first place?

    4. àng

      இந்தியாவில் நீங்கள் எவ்வளவு செலுத்த 411staff என்ன?

    5. àng

      mubai வானிலை என்ன?
      Mubai vāṉilai eṉṉa?

  2. Mary Mangan

    The “director of research” for USRTK has become a big fan of Mike Adams. She’s been tweeting his stuff lately.

    Yes, we’ve been trying to point out this Venn diagram for a long time. There’s evidence from way back that the director of the Organic Consumer’s Org + political work is anti-vax: \http://inthesetimes.com/article/6330

    “Allowing one-time therapeutic antibiotics is “a slippery slope,” says Ronnie Cummins, national director of the Organic Consumers Association, and would “undermine consumer confidence in organics. It’s the same position [I have] as on human vaccines. They are dangerous, and that’s why I didn’t vaccinate my kid.” “

    And lately they are attempting to remove vaccines from organic standards: \https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/nosb-testimony-gmo-vaccines-organic

    “GMO vaccines are inherently unpredictable and possibly dangerous.”

    We also have Vermont legislators on the record as considering Jeffrey Smith’s book as “her bible”. He stayed with them while working on this legislation. \http://theprogressivecontrarian.com/2014/04/26/vermont-inducted-scientifically-illiterate-hall-shame/

    Yes, Mark: these are the folks who wrote the Vermont labeling law. Do you want anti-vaxxers and fluoride cranks driving food science policy? If you support the label, you do.

    [Note: I have escaped all the links to not wind up in moderation purgatory. You’ll have to paste them.]

    Reply
    1. Mary Mangan

      I totally forgot to add: the guy who runs Dr. Bronner’s wing of nuttery, Adam Eidinger, was profiled a while back here: \https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/adam-eidinger-a-protester-looks-at-40/2014/01/03/de87f018-56dc-11e3-835d-e7173847c7cc_story.html

      He drives those cars with the fake foods on top. He’s a troofer.
      For that reason, he doesn’t work on climate change or try to prove that the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, involved a coverup, a belief he acknowledges could damage his reputation if more people knew about it.

    2. àng

      mary where are you mary?

    3. àng

      mubai வானிலை என்ன?
      Mubai vāṉilai eṉṉa?

    4. àng

      mubai வானிலை என்ன?
      Mubai vāṉilai eṉṉa? darling?

  3. Kirk Gothier

    We either start making decisions based on scientific consensus, or some other metric which insures other species evolve to replace us: http://www.belmarrahealth.com/mental-health-brain-power-can-be-restored-with-vigorous-exercise-in-older-adults/.

    Reply
    1. Kirk Gothier

      Oops, showing MY age, here’s the correct link: http://www.pewinternet.org/interactives/public-scientists-opinion-gap/

  4. Modemac

    Similarities between anti-vaxxers and anti-GMO fanatics…

    * Fear-based: Appeal to fear of vaccinations, and use of cute animals.
    * Scientists can not be trusted: “They’re all bought by Monsanto!”
    * Anti-corporation: “Monsanto! Monsanto! Monsanto!”
    * Anti-profit: “Monsanto patents seeds!” (Except that organic companies also patent seeds.)
    * Celebrity endorsed: Neil Young, Christie Brinkley, Sarah Michelle Gellar, so many more…
    * Deny scientific consensus: “All those studies are Monsanto propaganda!”
    * Cite discredited “studies:” Seralini
    * Leaders are not scientists: Vandana Shiva, Jeffrey Smith, Dr. Bronner’s Soaps, Whole Food Market…
    * Call those who disagree “shills:” Any and every anti-GMO group in existence.
    * Claims government/corporate conspiracy: “Monsanto owns everything! Supreme Court justices, the FDA!”
    * Uses appeal to nature fallacy: “GMOs are unnatural! Frankenfood!”
    * Misuses precautionary principle: “GMOs are untested! They’re not tested enough! Decades of testing aren’t enough!”
    * Claims all manner of sickness: “Cancer! Autism! Dead bees! Obesity! Those tumor-grown rats!”
    * Says GMOs untested/unregulated: See above, precautionary principle. “GMOs are untested! They’re not tested enough! And Monsanto owns the FDA!”
    * Links to Natural News & Dr. Mercola: Duh. I don’t even have to link here.
    * Main info source is YouTube videos: “OMG GMO,” “Bought,” so many more phony “documentaries”
    * Message spread though Facebook memes: GMO Free USA, GMO Inside, March Against Monsanto, David Wolfe…
    * Correlation = causation: “Monsanto is evil therefore GMOs are evil!”
    * Call those who disagree “sheeple:” Are you as sick of the term “sheeple” as I am?
    * Believes talk show hosts over scientists: “Monsanto owns scientists! Alex Jones is the truth!”

    Reply
    1. Mary Mangan

      Also, both groups show images of so many syringes sticking into things. It’s pretty creepy, actually.

    2. Eric Bjerregaard

      Quite accurate. Have you been reading Ted Miner’s stuff?

    3. Chuck Lasker

      Cool to see my graphic typed out like that, not that I signed it. 🙂

      http://chucklasker.com/images/antivaxvsantigmo2.png

    4. Mark Lynas (Post author)

      I like your pic. I’ll try and put it in the main article.

    5. àng

      Yes people with an educated opinion, actually back up their facts with statistics, CDC reports, FDA reports, and personal observations within their work in the health industry.
      Facts are: acelluar pertussis vaccine protects for first 9 years of life, during this time, these people still catch, carry and spread, to even newborn infants, without any signs of the disease. They carry the bacteria in their throats, and a simple swab, confirms this
      Whole cell pertusis vaccine works, and is still working in those that had it, even if they got the shots over 50 years ago.

    6. àng

      இந்தியாவில் நீங்கள் எவ்வளவு செலுத்த 411staff என்ன?

  5. The Crack Emcee

    It’s amazing to me, when people describe The NewAge Movement, but fail to recognize it. You’re correct: these are all the same group, you’re just failing to see this particular group as the group you should be looking at. That’s their strength. Nobody takes them seriously as a group (NewAgers are seen as “flakey” and “free spirits”) so they can get away with murder – and do, sometimes, they’re so naively regarded. Meanwhile, their networks are hard at work, throwing wrenches into everything: the midwife with an “indigo child” leaves yoga class for her chiropractor who recommends a homeopath sure to warn against GMOs, etc. Once inside the NewAge bubble, they can go all day without hardly encountering a discouraging word about any of it. Needless to say, I’m working on a book about it, but it still makes me happy to see someone else noticed. Since this is such an Oprah-oriented culture, researching it can be a pretty lonely and discouraging road,…

    Reply
  6. Suzie Wilde

    We are going to have to start demanding that these people produce clear, peer reviewed scientific research like the Houston Museum of Natural Science did this week. When the quack that they were hosting could not provide one shred of research, they cancelled the event. We have to become as vocal and forceful as the Anti’s. Speak up and demand. And thank you for your work Mark.

    Reply
  7. Chuck Niwrad

    The supplement and integrative medicine industries are close allies of those two. Together, they have made enough noise to cow legislators. Crank conspiracy theorists would be far less troubling if it weren’t for the fact that politicians fear challenging them: S.2621, for example.

    Conspiracy theorists accuse the government of being complicit in corporate schemes, yet they have had great success in bending the will of politicians. I guess all politicians are corrupt… except for the ones that agree with you.

    Reply
  8. àng

    Well, the messing around with the ingredients in an artificial way is quite similar. The old whole cell pertussis (whooping cough), vaccine worked for over 50 damn years. Then comes gmo, and messing with the bacteria, and just injecting the toxins, not the bacteria, and what do we get? we get aP pertussis vaccine in 1995, which does not stop infections at all. It merely stops the carriers from catching pertussis themselves. What went wrong? The vaccine god, became all powerful, that when a vaccine doesnt work, it somehow gets called a “”conspiracy”” ? What garbage, if a vaccine doesnt work, and actually is increasing whoopiing cough by 100% per year, why isnt anyone questioning? As for the Health Ranger, even putting him in the same league as the respected and very well educated Doctor named Andrew Wakefield is absurd. As for saying vaxxed is anti vaccine, also absurd. Vaxxed is about the CDC fraud……………….. WHATEVER YOUR VIEWS on one vaccine, or some vaccines, irrelevant, the movie is about FRAUD.

    Reply
  9. Clyde Davies

    “What garbage, if a vaccine doesnt work, and actually is increasing whoopiing cough by 100% per year, why isnt anyone questioning?”

    Your evidence for this ridiculous assertion is, well?

    “As for the Health Ranger, even putting him in the same league as the respected and very well educated Doctor named Andrew Wakefield is absurd.”

    Wakefield may be well educated but he is certainly not respected or even a doctor any more, after being struck off the medical register.

    Reply
    1. àng

      http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm

      Get real, the CDC have been proven corrupt, yet the film, about the corruption, is suddenly cencored so no one can see it?

      It has been known for 6 years now, that the aP vaccine is a disaster. Whooping cough rising 100% yearly, yes doubling every damn YEAR! Babies now get infected mostly from fully vaccinated siblings, who show no signs of illness themselves.

      If you want the statistics, just google, if you want the real information, just google. People ARE TRYING TO SPEAK UP, but until people begin to listen, just like the FDA report, no one even BOTHERS TO READ IT!

    2. Clyde Davies

      Where is this evidence of corruption in the CDC?

      Where is the evidence for dramatic increase in infant mortality that would be expected if your claims about the acellular vaccine were true?

      Shall I tell you how I ‘got real’? I don’t ‘just Google’ anything. I follow up by reading the original research literature. Unfortunately too many people now think that Googling is an end in itself rather than the mere starting point for understanding an issue.

  10. Mike

    It strikes me funny when these quacks promote “natural” things over scientific improvements to make man’s life easier and safer. After all, arsenic, cyanide, and salmonella are all “natural” but that doesn’t mean that I want to intentionally put them in my body. The same goes for many natural things. Also, I have heard the meme that thousands of years ago we didn’t have the science based knowledge we have now. Fact of the matter is that thousands of years ago most of these people would have been the feedstock for carnivores because it is “natural” selection.

    Reply
  11. Kay Kiser

    The real harm of the anti-vaccine and anti-GMO vendetta is not so much to those in developed countries. It is deadly to third world impoverished countries that are fighting a desperate battle against malnutrition and infectious diseases that could be more easily controlled with both vaccinations and GMO foods. For example, golden rice could end the cycle of blindness in Africa, etc. due to vitamin A deficiency but is prevented by UN and NGO entities who threaten to withhold aid. The same type of thinking (and the same link to aid) has killed millions through programs such as banning of DDT and similar pesticides that had almost eradicated malaria and other insect borne diseases. By the way, later research showed that claims of environmental harm from DDT were false, including thinning egg shells, build-up in the food chain, cancer and aquatic toxicity. See the excellent article “The Lies of Rachael Carson,” by Dr. J. Gordon Edwards at http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/summ02/Carson.html.
    Sorry, no link. Paste it in.

    Reply
    1. àng

      Golden rice hahah rofl I suggest you do some more research. Golden Rice was an abysmal commercial failure……………… then maybe read up about the suicides because the GMO cotton, is also a failure, doesnt like droughts, unlike the usual stuff they used to grow. But that is OK, the farmers that went bankrupt, got out of their debts, by drinking all the glypho, that was part of their package deal………… And yeah, it does kill em! Now as far as vaccines go? USA highest vaccination rates, and worse rates of chronic illness in the damn world, look out your window!

    2. Eric Bjerregaard

      “abysmal commercial failure” This is a flat out impossibility. It has not been released commercially. They are having a yield issue and are trying local varieties to get the yelds up. The issue is that since they came up with GR2 they have found that yield and vitamin precursor are inversely proportional.

    3. àng

      Eric, yes just as you said, an abysmal commercial failure. So you say the more vitamin in the rice, the less rice they get? I think the locals have realised they prefer a bigger crop of normal rice, and then they can afford the carrot for the vitamins?

    4. Eric Bjerregaard

      Well that was a pathetic attempt to twist what I said. I did not say it was a failure. It can’t possibly fail commercially until after it is tried commercially. Also, the “locals” haven’t realized anything about the rice. Why? Because it hasn’t been released to them. And BTW your comment to Julian Bond is completely dishonest bunk and errors. For example The crops mentioned were never designed to kill nematodes.

    5. àng

      Nematodes and the corn grub. GMO corn. It no longer works to kill either. Resistant strains. And the bt in the corn, is not the natural bt bacteria, that is used on organic crops, the bacteria that spreads amongst the caterpillars, where they crawl away and die. The toxin in the corn, is simply the exploding bug gut toxins, and as I dont eat dying caterpillars, I dont see why I should have to eat caterpillar gut toxins, in my corn. That are there now, for absolutely no purpose? THAT IS WHY THE WORLD IS BURNING USA GMO CORN, before it infects real crops, as it has done in USA. IF gmo WAS SO GREAT, why dont they label it, wouldnt thousands flock to buy it, if it was so great? Now they spray even non GMO wheat with glyphosate before harvest, as any dying thing puts all its efforts into the next generation, the seed. GMO not doing great, bit of GMO resistance by non corrupt individuals? better flog some more glyphosate, eh Monsanto? Problem being, spraying the ripening crop, kills the bees, and of course the wheat gets made into flour, and bread, thats a win / win for Monsanto, and manufacturers and probably for doctors, many more patients! Glypho is an antibiotic, except it kills all the natural good gut bacteria, and also kills all these natural things in the bread. Now the bread doesnt even go mouldy! So we certainly cant digest this fake food either! Cardboard food. GMO food has less nutrition, why? Because it is ALL glypho resistant. Why did monsanto want this? BECAUSE MONSANTO IS A CHEMICAL COMPANY! Glypho kills plants by stopping the uptake of nutrients, the plant dies. Glypho resistant crops, simply dont need to uptake nutrients. so they survive, look great, but have NEAR NO nutrition. As for attempting to force this franken food onto people already malnourished, is absurd. Their own seeds, developed over generations, which they can re use year to year, is a tried and true method. Golden rice, that looks pretty, but wow if it has this extra added vitamin, it doesnt produce anywhere near the crop size of ordinary rice? Monsanto madness. (et al). Next are they going to try and produce an Indian takeaway rice, that also has pork, and cabbage, and all those vitamins? Wow, lets all just eat mad monsanto rice? Absurd. Mad scientists. And when it doesnt work, they refuse to admit it. Monsanto shares are falling, thank god, time to sell.

    6. Eric Bjerregaard

      You have introduced a new claim that I have never read before. “Glypho resistant crops, simply dont need to uptake nutrients. so they survive” Please explain this in specific detail. I am sure Mark Lynas will be real grateful to see the sheer brilliance with which you will explain this phenomenon.

  12. Julian Bond

    You could do a similar study of the correspondences between Pro-GMO, Pro-Fossil Fuel and Climate Change Denial. Perhaps not as obvious but just as un-scientific and perhaps just as dangerous.

    So much bullshit out there. You need wings just to keep your head above it.

    Reply
    1. àng

      I suggest people do their own research on that one. Plenty of you tube videos of the widows, and film of the failed crops, and then when they put their few animals to graze on the failed cotton crops, the damn animals die! These were poor illiterate farmers, sold a lemon, by a multinational company, who cares about patents, and selling chemicals……… a chemical company! They have no morals……….. dont care about feeding the world. USA now has fields full of GMO corn, all full of bt toxin (exploding bug gut toxins), they cant get this toxin out now, and it doesnt even kill the caterpillars and the nematodes it was designed to anymore. A steady diet of this toxin, has meant all the weaker bugs have died, and the resistant bugs, are NOW FEASTING> Now they have to spray the useless GMO bt corn, full of useless toxins, that they cant get out of the food chain now, now they have to spray it with STRONGER chemicals. MONSANTO heaven!

    2. àng

      Apologies my comments were meant for the fellow who reckons that GMO cotton was great for India. Below. He must have Monsanto shares?

    3. Eric Bjerregaard

      And now ang proves he has no truth in him by resorting to the evidence free, outdated, and ridiculous shill gambit.

    4. Scott

      Clearly ang got the causation wrong, but he is not wrong about nutrient levels.it is related to soil health, as soil health directly effects plant health.and nutrient levels.

      In the same soil, it matters little if the corn is GMO or not. However, improve the soil and both the quality and quantity will increase.

      Bottom line is that the difference is not whether the corn is GMO or not. The correlation is related to the methods used to grow that corn, and if those methods improve soil health.

    5. àng

      EVERY gmo crop is bred to be glypho resistant. Glypho blocks the pathways in a plant so it is unable to uptake nutrients, and the plant dies.
      Glypho resistant plants, ie all GMOs can not uptake nutrients, or they would die…………. all GMOs lack the same nutrition as a non gmo product.
      Ad a bit of glyphosate spray, wow, what a cocktail!

    6. Clyde Davies

      “EVERY gmo crop is bred to be glypho resistant.”

      No it ISN’T you ignorant fool. Some are engineered to kill insect predators. Others are simply enigneered to be more nourishing.

      Please carry on. You’re simply doing our job for us by exposing your ignorance every time you open your mouth.

    7. àng

      I suggest you research. EVERY GMO IS BRED TO BE GLYPHO RESISTANT.

      So state which ones you claim, are not glypho resistant?

    8. Clyde Davies

      No they, AREN’T, you utter ignoramus.
      * Bt crops are engineered to produce a protein toxic to Lepidoptera but not humans.
      * Golden rice simply produces beta-carotene, that’s all.
      * Rothamsted camelina produces omega-3 fish oils
      * Gm papaya resists the ringspot virus
      * GM Bananas now resist black sigatoka
      * Etc, etc.

      I’m beginning to wonder whether even flower arranging is an intellectual stretch for you…

    9. àng

      Hi clyde, re GMO specifically the bt TOXINS in gmo corn Those little grubs, and those nematodes, fed a steady diet of bt toxin in corn, what did one expect to happen, a bug lifecyle is real quick! Only took what 15 years? the little critters all died, EXCEPT for the ones resistant to the bt TOXINS in the corn , dont kill them anymore, the resistant little critter, the few that survived that STEADY DAILY DIET of BT toxins, (not bt) in the corn, well they thrived, they busy munching their little hearts out all through that GMO corn!
      USA cant get the toxin out of the corn now eh! Buggar, and seeing as it has cross pollinated everywhere, or contaminated the food chain SO MUCH, even CHINA rejects and stuff you put in shipping containers, and send to China, saying non GMO, or organic? So full of damn GMO you cant even sell it to China?

    10. Eric Bjerregaard

      Does landscaping count as flower arranging? Because I don’t think ang could do well.

    11. àng

      wtf? you dont give up do you? BT crops have bt toxins in them not bt bacteria. BT corn is now useless at killing the pests it was designed to kill, but they cant get the bloody toxins out now! GMO corn is resistant to glyphosate………….. you do know the difference between a herbicide and an insecticide?

      Dont you? BT toxins mean to kill the bugs, and then if you spray your whole corn crop with glyphosate, wow, it kills all the plants, except the glypho resistant corn………………. Why the eck , do you think Monsanto made these GMO crops? So they could sell bloody glyphosate! They now even spray non gmo wheat crops with glyphosate, so they have a bigger crop when harvested. Everyone knows a dying plant, or mother, puts all the energy as it dies, into the offspring……………….. Downside? now all those foraging bees, on the flowers, have their gut bacteria die, called mad bee disease! Glyphosate is a registered antibiotic, but never used as such, AS IT ONLY KILLS THE GUT BACTERIA WE NEED, TO DIGEST FOOD, WHETHER THAT BE A DAMN BEE, OR A COW, OR A PIG, OR A HUMAN! Havent you noticed your wheat that has been glypho sprayed in USA? made in to bread, the bread DONT GO ROTTEN ANYMORE. lasts 6 damn weeks, if food dont go rotten, how the hell we meant to digest it?

      Look Darling Clyde, you obviously as thick as a brick, just email me we can continue this conversation, instead of boring everyone else on this thread

      I am so glad you write on a blog, so do a million other people!

    12. àng

      Anyone interested, damn even a google search will tell you EVERY GMO CROP IS BRED TO BE GLYPHOSATE RESISTANT. What do you expect a chemical company to breed, for gods sake! Gimme a break here Clyde!

    13. Clyde Davies

      Yeah, if it’s on the Internet it must be true.

    14. Clyde Davies

      “Look Darling Clyde, you obviously as thick as a brick”

      Yeah, that’s why they hand out PhDs and first class honours degrees to people like me. Because we’re so thick.

      I’m going off now to drag my knuckles in the dirt.

    15. àng

      Oh so it is a challenge of degrees here! haha ph D in friggin what? hahaha! You awannabe psychiatrist/gmo scientist/ microbiologist/ haematologist/ immunologist hilarious stuff, I am in fits!!!!!!!! hahah, and you while you work in this really serious capacity as a researcher, spend all day on stupid threads like this, challenging mere florists like me? hahahaha!! luv ya clyde……. you so funny! You havent got a clue what you rave on about, and it is friggin obvious! Enjoy your wannabe dream world……..

  13. Eric Bjerregaard

    Also the Indian farmer suicide myth is so out dated that to use it constitutes lying. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/nov/05/gmcrops-india

    Reply
    1. àng

      Please see comment above, apologies it got posted in the wrong spot. Selling illiterate India farmers, cotton seed, not suitable for their climate, is horrific, yes it failed, their own cotton seed was specific for their climate. When they fed their animals the failed crop, EVEN THEIR ANIMALS DIED.! Anyone can look up documentaries, and references on this issue. The farmer then has to suicide, as the debts die with him……………………. So from subsistence farmers, who once survived auite well on their own cotton crops, they ended up in debt to Monsanto, and banks, no crops, just so glad their system is different, in USA, the family would simply be thrown off the land, the debts dont die with the farmer.

    2. Eric Bjerregaard

      Well, I see you did not read the truth I posted and instead insulted the intelligence of the Indian farmers who continually purchase the BT cotton. Why? Because it is a good value. Here is some more truth you will ignore. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/the-myth-of-indias-gm-genocide-genetically-modified-cotton-blamed-for-wave-of-farmer-suicides and http://www.biofortified.org/2011/07/the-real-success-story-of-gm-cotton-and-edible-cotton-oil-in-india-2002-2011/

    3. Clyde Davies

      Yeah, let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story, shall we?

      Garbage in, garbage out.

    4. Clyde Davies

      This is getting hilarious. Any farmer that feeds his animals cotton is an idiot.

      As has been pointed out, the farmer suicide myth bears no relation whatsoever to reality. Farmer suicides in India are pretty much in line with the other sectors and started well before GM crops were introduced.

      Farmers don’t tend to be stupid people, and if a crop doesn’t work they stop growing it. The certainly aren’t so stupid as to prefer death over breaking a supplier contract.

      You’re really quite an idiot aren’t you?

    5. Chuck Niwrad

      Ang is just proving Mark’s point about the similarities between anti-GMO and anti-vax zombie arguments. For instance, if anything, farmer suicides rates in India actually decreased a little, there is no evidence to support the conclusion that sheep grazing in a harvested Bt-cotton field died from Bt poisoning (acute other-than-Bt pesticide poisoning or nitrate poisoning are likely explanations), and GM cotton has been such a dismal failure in India that farmers were pirating GM cotton seed.

      And just like the anti-vax movement with Andrew Wakefield, anti-GMOers have their own set of leaders spouting woo and misinformation. For instance Vandana Shiva’s mysticism and anti-colonial ideology:

      “…plants have right to integrity and we need to abandon “anthropocentric worldview” in favor of “Earth Democracy.”

      “…and just like the British Empire was fighting an ultimately futile battle against a people who had awoken and who would never again sleep in the colonial dreamworld they had constructed, the people of India today are pushing out multinationals and building a wall against their return.”
      Plants have rights?

      (Third duplicate? Again, sorry Mark, trying to figure out what triggers moderation. Thought it was links.)

  14. Kirk Gothier

    Please consider highlighting those comments which are clearly supported by scientific consensus, with relevant links. I love learning from the scientific community, but have no interest in reading uninformed opinions from conspiracy theorists…

    Reply
    1. àng

      http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm
      “”””individuals immunized with an acellular pertussis vaccine may be protected from disease, they may still become infected with the bacteria without always getting sick and are able to spread infection to others, including young infants who are susceptible to pertussis disease.”””” The Dtap the aP part in use since 95, is the sole cause of pertussis increasing at the rate of 100% per year. for the average of 3 years that the vaccine protects the vacinee, that vacinneee, still catches, carries and spreads pertussis, over and over. When the vacine fails, they catch it themselves…………… But seeing as most on this thread refuse to even consider watching a movie that proves CDC corruption, I dout they would even believe what the FDA have said about the failures of the aP vaccine, still in use.

    2. Clyde Davies

      I got vaccinated against whooping cough in the 1960s as a small child. I got the side effects. It GAVE me whooping cough which nearly killed me.

      The acellular vaccine was developed to avoid exactly those effects. On balance it is felt to be safer than the whole cell vaccine.

      And no, I’m not going to watch any film by Andrew Wakefield accusing others of corruption. I have better things to do than waste hours of my life watching hypocrisy.

    3. àng

      Clyde, if you got whooping cough, after vaccination, you are most probably just one of those 20% who never respond to the vaccine anyhow.
      Whole cell was removed, I believe as it was causing too much brain damage, in those given the vaccine.
      In my opinion, I would still prefer the one or two shots of the whole cell, as I did have, and have lifelong immunity,

      than have the new acellular vaccine, have to have jabs every three years (need 37 jabs by age 90), and not have the potential to be a symptomless carrier, and spreader of pertussis for all of those 90 years or so of my life.

  15. Chuck Niwrad

    Ang is just proving Mark’s point about the similarities between anti-GMO and anti-vax zombie arguments. For instance, if anything, farmer suicides rates in India actually decreased a little (http://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-does-gm-cotton-lead-to-farmer-suicide-in-india-24045), there is no evidence to support the conclusion that sheep grazing in a harvested Bt-cotton field died from Bt poisoning (accute other-than-Bt pesticide poisoning or nitrate poisoning are likely explanations), and GM cotton has been such a dismal failure in India that farmers were pirating GM cotton seed.

    And just like the anti-vax movement with Andrew Wakefield, anti-GMOers have their own set of leaders spouting woo and misinformation. For instance Vandana Shiva’s mysticism and anti-colonial ideology:

    “…plants have right to integrity and we need to abandon “anthropocentric worldview” in favor of “Earth Democracy.” https://twitter.com/drvandanashiva/status/287397046447640576

    “…and just like the British Empire was fighting an ultimately futile battle against a people who had awoken and who would never again sleep in the colonial dreamworld they had constructed, the people of India today are pushing out multinationals and building a wall against their return.” http://www.navdanya.org/earth-democracy

    Plants have rights?

    (Second duplicate? Sorry Mark, thought there was a limit of three on links, maybe it was the link shortener that triggered moderation?)

    Reply
  16. Kevin Folta

    Why did it take so long to realize that anti GMO and anti vax are the same people?

    You’d think the syringes in the fruits and veggies would be a hint.

    Reply
    1. Mark Lynas (Post author)

      Well we need more than “a hint” Kevin! I’m still collecting evidence, so feel to send anything you have my way… No response so far from your nemesis over at USRTK.

    2. àng

      The newborn rate of microcephaly USA is presently 2-2.5 % 4 million births equals 80,000 – 100,000

      That is what the reference below states, “” Microcephaly affects 2 – 2.5% of newborns. 80,000 a year is way more than 25,000 a year, gosh I thought having a higher rate than Brazil with its “”sika epidemic”” (sic) was bad enough…………… Surely there cant be 80,000 microcephalic babies each year now in USA?

      From: angelaoffer@hotmail.com
      To: brett.smith@healthshed.com
      Subject: RE: Tdap vaccine info from Brazil
      Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:01:00 +0800

      Microcephaly cases USA, have gone from 800-4800 per year in 2010, to 25,000 at the present time. What has caused this 50 fold increase in only 5 years? Could it be the Dtap they give to pregnant woman, which they began in USA in early 2013? Anyone know when they started jabbing women in USA with the flu shots?

      Brazil, the connection is so blatant, anyone can see it. Vaccination of the women started in May, first babies born in October, In 3 months 4,000 microcephaly cases, ie 12,000 per year.

      USA, has more microcephaly cases, per live births than BRAZIL!

      Please explain CDC, and GSK the producer of the brazil Tdap used on all those poor babies, before birth?

      National Birth Defects Prevention Network. Major birth defects data from population-based birth defects surveillance programs in the United States, 2006-2010. Birth Defects Research (Part A): Clinical and Molecular Teratology. 2013;97:S1-S172.

      You have 300 million in the USA, 4 million births a year

      The reference for the 25,000 per year now? http://www.childrenwithmicro.org/

      Microcephaly is COMMON – it is far more common than other well
      known disorders (i.e. Autism). Microcephaly affects more than
      25,000 infants & children in the United States alone each year.

      So you worrying about GMOs causing damage? 1 in 50 now USA are being born with microcephaly due to the fraud, called flu vaccines, and the failure of aP vaccines
      fb angela coral eisenhauer read the reports

    3. Kay Kiser

      Facts about microcephaly: the CDC figures are not 2 – 2.5% but 0.02-0.12% (2 to 12 per 10000). Also, the definition of microcephaly has been expanded to include babies with only slightly lower head circumference than the average (whatever that is). Originally, the term microcephaly only included what are now termed extreme microcephaly, which resulted in severe physical and mental disability or death. Like autism, the definition has been so broadened that it includes a large number of cases that are not pathological.

    4. àng

      Kay Those figures you quote, they are for 2006-2010, I am not disputing those figures.
      I am quoting the 2015/16 figures from two independent sources : 25,000 microcephalic babies,

      A different reference
      quotes now, that the 2 – 2.5% of all newborn babies are now born microcephalic. That seems absurdedly high to me.

      So if we go on the much more reasonable figure of 25,000 per year, that is 5 times increase in only 5 years?

    5. Clyde Davies

      Just Googled USRTK. My, what an impressive roll-call of accreditations and qualifications: “undergraduate degree in religion”, “worked as a journalist and published an investigative newspaper”, “Professor of Sociology at Boston College”…and you could count all their science qualifications on the fingers of a mitten.

    6. àng

      HI Clyde gee you read that reference in 20 seconds! Now check out all the links!

    7. Clyde Davies

      I have to say, that after reading ang’s drivel, that if she wants her own children not to be vaccinated, then its ultimately her choice to put them in danger of serious illness and/or death.

      But looking at her, and how silly and shrill they are likely to turn out, they won’t be a great loss to the species, and I can’t think of an easier way of chlorinating the human gene pool.

    8. àng

      All my kids are vaccinated, none got pertussis, despite 1 in 30 per year under age 12 fully vaccinated having and spreading pertussis for the 12 year s of their life?
      I love whole cell damn one jab no pertussis for life?
      As for aP javb every three years, so you dont catch the pertussis you carrying and spreading in your own throat?
      Nah, I dont want to infect babies.

    9. Clyde Davies

      Ah, so you’re a *nunaced* anti-vaxxer, then?

    10. àng

      Clyde darling, I dont live in USA, hope you aint pestering that poor person… you got the wrong angela coral eisenhauer there! try again!

      “”””Just Googled USRTK. My, what an impressive roll-call of accreditations and qualifications: “undergraduate degree in religion”, “worked as a journalist and published an investigative newspaper”, “Professor of Sociology at Boston College”…and you could count all their science qualifications on the fingers of a mitten. – See more at: http://www.marklynas.org/2016/03/anti-gmo-anti-vaccination-campaigns-two-faces-movement/?replytocom=357004#respond“”””

  17. àng

    zika ? CDC in its panic are spending millions if not billions trying to prove that 0.1 percent of babies in Brazil, with microcephaly, is caused by a mossie.
    100% of those babies had Tdap, a GSK brand of vaccine, produced under licence in Pernumbucco, Brazil Mothers got jabbed May 2005, microcephaly appeared October 2015.
    As for CDC USA? well since DTAp and flu shots, in pregnant women, there is now 1 in 50 babies born in USA, with microcephaly, YEP 4 TIMES THE RATE OF THE “””SIKA”IN BRAZIL BUT DAMN NO zika mossies in USA< what are they going to blame?

    Reply
    1. Clyde Davies

      Oh, just shut up, you silly , hysterical, foaming-at-the-mouth arse.

  18. àng

    The vaciine was ready, and began widespread use from May 2015.

    Reply
  19. àng

    all the references, all the information on the abysmal failure of the aP vaccine the rise of pertussis 12000 percent in Australia since the intro of the aP vaccine…………….. all in a 90% vaccinated population? And Jill “”jab those dollies”” Hennessy, health minister Australia, actually said, if we lift the vaccination rate from 90% to 95% all these vaccinated pertussis victims, will apparently disappear?
    Ah she is blonde, and knows nothing CDC and TGA love those people!

    Reply
    1. Clyde Davies

      Oh, just take your nonsense elsewhere. Everybody else here thinks you are talking utter garbage. And until you have the guts to post with your real name, we think you’re a spineless little insect as well.

      Go away and read some more material on this subject than you’ve written, for once. Such as this:
      http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2016/s0413-zika-microcephaly.html

    2. àng

      Everyone else can speak for themselves!
      real name oh gosh
      angela coral eisenhauer
      3a Meananger Crescent
      BAYONET HEAD WA 6330 AUSTRALIA
      fb angela coral eisenhauer
      email angelaoffer@hotmail.com
      4 kids, and presently ill , but usually a florist,
      while I recuperate, I love internet!

    3. Clyde Davies

      Well, forgive me if I don’t go into the same level of personal detail. I’ll share one aspect of myself though. I have a first degree and a Ph.D. in Chemistry, several years of post-doctoral experience, and have worked for many years in pharma research before my current job.

      If there’s only one lesson I’ve learned through all that experience, it’s that I know when I don’t know. And I’ve also learned how call out those who claim to know, but don’t.

      I happen to like flowers a lot and I’m glad people like you sell them. I suggest you stick to that. You’re probably quite good at that.

    4. àng

      So you havent worked in pharm research for what? 5 years, then you would not have a clue about the failure of the aP vaccine, that didnt show up until 2010 in Australia, THE FIRST COUNTRY to introduce aP vaccine for all vaccinated.
      I suggest to get up to date!

    5. àng

      Whooping cough is a bacteria that colonises the throat, called pertussis.
      1. Near no pertussis Australia whole cell pertussis vaccine (wP) 1953-1995
      2. Change to aP vaccine 1996.
      3. Vaccination rate, all time high levels of over 90%
      4. First Major outbreaks begin 2010, when all first aP vaccinated show 100% failure rates of the vaccine.
      5. No one over age 12 catches the illness, in the outbreak in 2010, one has to assume the whole cell is still working in anyone who got vaccinated prior to 1996.
      6. WA Health Department discover those kids aged 6-12 who they test, during the outbreak in 2010, although showing no symptoms still had pertussis bacteria in their throats for up to 8 weeks, and were able to transmit this to others. These children had still working aP vaccine, which protected them, but did not stop them transmitting the bacteria.
      7. Studies prove that fully vaccinated, with no symptoms, who have not yet had pertussis themselves (when the vaccine fails), do in fact, still catch, carry and spread pertussis to infants, who are too young to be vaccinated..
      8. In an attempt to prevaccinated babies, USA recommends aP vaccine be given to all pregnant women in 2013. Rise from 5,000 microcephalic babies per year to over 25,000 per year.
      9. Introduce aP vaccination to all Brazilian pregnant women in May 2015, first babies born October, a rise to 12,000 babies per year with microcephaly, which is less than the present rate in USA.
      10. No zika in USA to blame, so how do CDC explain this rise in microcephaly?

    6. Eric Bjerregaard

      Clyde is speaking quite well. I support what he says and completely agree with any derogatory comment he makes regarding your claims. Further he has saved me the time and effort needed to reply to your nonsense. Thanks Clyde.

    7. Clyde Davies

      Are you mendacious or simply just stupid? Kay Kiser has pointed out that there has been NO epidemic of microcephaly in the US or anywhere else that is associated with the aP vaccine.

      I haven’t worked in pharma research for several years, but quote often you don’t need bang-up-to-date specialist knowledge to know when an argument is hogwash. You need just the critical thinking skills. The fact that you haven’t presented any evidence to support your ever-more-ridiculous and paranoid claims, and that I have been able to find no serious concerns in the literature concerning the aP vaccine (in fact it seems to be more effective and less harmful), suggests to me that you lack both.

    8. àng

      Clyde are you plain stupid, I agree with what she says, 800-4,800 had microcephaly in the USA, during 2006-2010…………….

      If you can quote me CDC statistics for 2013-15 now that would be worthwhile!

      Figures quoted in any references I have found, now quote 25,000 microcephalic babies a year.

    9. Hans Litten

      You stay right here Ang –
      You have backing .
      You are not alone .

      Phd’s in what Clyde ?

    10. àng

      வருடத்திற்கு அமெரிக்க $ 1,000,000.000 உங்கள் முதலாளி கொடுக்க
      திரு பில் கேட்ஸ்? $ 1 மாதத்திற்கு மில்லியன்
      டெஸ்ட் மருந்துகள் ஏழை மீது அமெரிக்கா இந்தியாவில் மருந்து நிறுவனங்கள்.
      இல்லை இறுதி சடங்கிற்கு 370 இறந்த 2 ஆண்டுகள், பணம் இல்லை,
      HPV தடுப்பூசி சோதனை இந்தியா, 7 இறந்த 2000 முடமான
      பழைய போலியோ தடுப்பு மருந்து, அமெரிக்கா எந்த பயனும் <இப்போது 40,000 இறந்த இந்தியா முடங்கிப்?
      அங்கேலா offer@hotmail.com
      அங்கேலா பவள Eisenhauer பேஸ்புக்

    11. Clyde Davies

      Physical Chemistry, followed by about 15 years working in Pharmaceutical Research. Why? Trying to play the man instead of the ball? Never had anyone try that on me beforehand.

    12. Eric Bjerregaard

      Hey Clyde, I have a small farm in North Florida. I figured out how to get a fall crop of papayas some years ago. No rin spot virus this far north yet. So, my primary risk is cold..

    13. àng

      இந்தியாவில் நீங்கள் எவ்வளவு செலுத்த 411staff என்ன?
      google translate, its fun!

      just type in GOOGLE TRANSLATE.

    14. àng

      நான் நீங்கள் மும்பையில் என்ன செய்ய இரசாயன பகுப்பாய்வாளர் நோயியல் மருத்துவர் நுண்ணுயிரியல் haematologist இருக்கிறேன்?

  20. àng

    repost this everywhere. An innocent article by a person, he wrote, gave references, and 7 days later suddenly removed from internet? Bit weird.

    Reply
  21. Kirk Gothier

    Again, this article and most of the comments that follow, are not focused on scientific consensus, for all the obvious reasons: http://www.pewinternet.org/interactives/public-scientists-opinion-gap/.

    The response to outliers who want to make decisions based on belief, or only those studies supporting their beliefs, is to suggest they become more conversant with the scientific method, ASAP!

    Reply
  22. àng

    Look at the stats, just google pertussis Australia, and look at google images. Go on, go look! See if you can notice when the graph deviates from 1 per 100,000 to 360 per 100,000 DEPITE AN INCREAS OF VACCINATION FROM 70% TO 90% .

    If you did genuinely once worked in the area……….. look at the stats!

    Yes you in USA, you are following the same path, just as UK is, just 9 years later! We introduced ap in 1995, Uk and uSA, around 2004.

    So arent you concerned? That the kids in these outbreaks, are all aP vaccinated, either vaccine failures, with the cough, cough, cough, or ones whos vaccine hasnt failed yet, and they just catch carry and spread?

    Women do not produce antibodies to whooping cough, from this vaccine, to pass on to babies. They can however, if aP vaccinated recently, pass on the infection, even though they have no symptoms……………… Prevaccinating babies now? to save the 1 or 2 that die in Australia despite our ongoing epidemic, why? Vaccinate them then the babies have 5 times! the likelihood of a microcephalic baby, than choosing not to vaccinate.

    Pharma world, CDC corruption, gone absolutely bonkers!

    Reply
  23. Kay Kiser

    Sorry, guys. I think we should give up this meaningless dialog with hysterical misinformation believing ideologues that can’t be bothered by facts. They cite sources but never name them, which probably means they are conspiracy or advocacy sites/ sources. When a belief can’t be questioned, it is a religion. Religious zealots cannot be persuaded by facts. “Never try to teach a pig to sing. You will only get dirty and annoy the pig.”

    Reply
    1. àng

      speak for yourself Kay,, I enjoy the debate. If you want to pull out, thats your choice, since when are you school maam, telling others what to do?

    2. Eric Bjerregaard

      Since what she said made sense.

    3. àng

      So eric, couldnt you follow my notes, above, why not?

    4. Clyde Davies

      Over a decade ago, when i had delusions of becoming a writer, I dabbled in some topical commentary on the BBC’s h2g2 site about exactly the kind of think we come across in people like ang: http://h2g2.com/entry/A2028854

      At least, I thought it was merely topical but it seems to have become a persistent theme. h2g2 was meant to be a lighthearted look at life. But what I wrote wasn’t funny then, and it still isn’t funny now.

    5. àng

      Maybe that is why I dont actually push anyone to my blog, or my writings, or anything. Why do you want to direct people to some odd entry on your damn blog page, does it actually have ANYTHING TO DO WITH AP VACCINE BEING INTRODUCED INTO USA IN 2004 AND ANYTHING TO DO WITH EVERY PREGNANT MOTHER BEING RECOMMENDED TO HAVE THE JAB EVEN WHILE PREGNANT IN 2013? I just LIST THE FACTS. Why do you think that post has absolutely anything relevant to the fact microcephaly in USA has increased (over) 500% since introduction of vaccinating mothers for whooping cough, WHILE PREGNANT?

      Clyde? Come on do damn better than that!

    6. àng

      did read your post, pretty irrelevant, but I do read ALL LINKS POSTED. Thanks Clyde keep up the writing! dis you stop in 2013, why?

    7. Clyde Davies

      I just think you’re typical of the kind of person I wrote about. Incapable of thinking issues through but capable only of kneejerk responses to emotive issues. You clearly have no idea of what your’e talking about, as evidence by the claim that all GMO crops are engineered to resist glyphosate. But you just say it anyway.

      You are what is known as, in the common parlance, a ‘gobshite’.

    8. àng

      Anyhow Clyde your comments are getting repetitive, boring, and fruitless. If you want to email me angelaoffer@hotmail or if you wish to keep your anonymous stupid 5 aliases just fb me, you can be damn bert gororge or julia, I dont care angela coral eisenhauer – facebook. Cause I think you are boring this thread to death!

    9. Clyde Davies

      No, I don;’t think I’ll bother. I have all the information I need. And then some.

  24. àng

    What specific references do you want?

    Reply
  25. àng

    Clyde darling, anyone can just use that wonderful library search system now called GOOGLE, it is the new Dewey Decimal Classification system for searching now, god it beats the Australian Bibliographic Network, and such, people dont have to go to library, request a document and wait patiently in the mail anymore! Just google damn GMO or GMO whats in it or is are all GMOs resistant to glyphosate. God if you cant find the reference, ASK ME< I will do it for you!
    EVERY GMO IS BRED TO BE GLYPHOSATE RESISTANT! Hello? bred by a chemical company!
    Do I need to say it again, you seem unable to quote any reference disputing this
    EVERY GMO IS BRED TO BE GLYOPHASATE RESISTANT!

    Reply
    1. Clyde Davies

      Just because you keep on saying it doesn’t make it any more true.

      A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

    2. àng

      Exactly Clyde, well said, like when they suggested cocconing, like rejabbing everyone around a newborn, only to find it made it worse. wE AGREE! oNLY A FELLO THINKS REDOING THE SAME THING, OVER AND OVER WILLL HAVE A DIFFERENT RESULT? sO THE MORE THEY JAB, THE WORSE IT GETS!
      Of course a rational scientist would just look at the statistics, say lets stop jabbing with acellular pertussis vaccine, and damn in 5 years? All those vaccinated carriers gone, they all got pertussis, now absolutely never ever going to spread pertussis without symptoms again!

    3. Mike

      Eh? Ang, you do know that you can buy the best search spots on Google? The Dewey Decimal System, I think not. Just because pseudoscience is posted the most on the internet does not make it so. Just because you print or post something thousands of time does not make the REAL science go away.

    4. Clyde Davies

      Fuck the Dewy Decimal System. Please explain how why GM ringspot resistant papaya, which is a TREE, would NEED to be glyphosate resistant?

      Like I said, you’re not really equipped for this, are you?

    5. Eric Bjerregaard

      I grow papayas. The tiniest bit of overspray and they will get distorted new growth.

    6. àng

      Doctor of friggin what like the aussie blile runs AUS ri, he is a doctor too, of dinosaur bones! What exactly are you a doctor of, philosophy , or paleantology?

    7. Clyde Davies

      Eric: where do you grow your papayas, and what kind do you grow, GMO or non-GMO? Just interested.

  26. àng

    And of course no more vaccinated carriers! Or if you like jabbing, go back to whole cell, that worked a treat, they dont cary it and spread it!

    Reply
  27. àng

    “”Just Googled USRTK. My, what an impressive roll-call of accreditations and qualifications: “undergraduate degree in religion”, “worked as a journalist and published an investigative newspaper”, “Professor of Sociology at Boston College”…and you could count all their science qualifications on the fingers of a mitten. – See more at: http://www.marklynas.org/2016/03/anti-gmo-anti-vaccination-campaigns-two-faces-movement/#comment-357254“””” if that is the haha rofl cracking up here! if that is the stuff of a researcher dear Claude? Clyde? Jo Bloggs, you are hilarious! hoep you havent bothered that pooer person,……………………jhahahah

    Reply
  28. àng

    Love it undergraduate degree in religion, hahah shitting meself here ( sorry Aussie slang)…., you so funny, um worked as a journalis? um no! um professior of sociology um no?

    But I will repeat, anyone want real references, real research papers, of the abysmal failure of the acellular pertussis vaccine, introduced into Australia in 1995, just read my “”blog””” hahaha! just facebook me! angela coral eisenhauer, I am a mere florist!

    Reply
  29. àng

    Dear Clyde Mr thick as abrick YOUR QUOTE TO ME? “”Fuck the Dewy Decimal System. Please explain how why GM ringspot resistant papaya, which is a TREE, would NEED to be glyphosate resistant? SO YOU NEVER USED A LIBRARY? HOW OLD ARE YOU, THATS AWORRY, CAUSE YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO USE GOOGLE EITHER??????????? HMMM?

    Like I said, you’re not really equipped for this, are you?

    – See more at: http://www.marklynas.org/2016/03/anti-gmo-anti-vaccination-campaigns-two-faces-movement/#comment-357259 whatever, I dont know why would they NEED TO MAKE EVERY GMO CROP GLYPHO RESISTANT, YOU TELL ME!

    Reply
    1. Clyde Davies

      It’s DOCTOR Thick as a brick to you, dear.

      Now Please answer my question. It’s perfectly reasonable.

    2. àng

      facebook me, you dont even have to give your real name you can be sue, joe bloggs or clyde, I think this thread is done to death with you and I, dont you think so?
      Everyone interested, you got my details!

    3. Clyde Davies

      Look, dear, if you aren’t prepared to see an argument through then don’t go around picking one. You claimed that EVERY GMO was glyphosate resistant. I asked you to come up with some evidence of this statement. You have evaded doing so and now are claiming that you’re ‘too bored’ to continue.

      Which just leads me to the conclusion that don’t, and never did, know what you were talking about.

  30. àng

    oh did I mention I am angelaoffer@hotmail.com

    phone number Australia 0406668237
    address 3a Meanagner Crescent ALBANY WESTERN AUSTRALIA 6330

    FACEBOOK PAGE angela coral eisenhauer

    so its a bit boring here isnt it clyde, think people over your nonsense, just directly email me, or if you want to keep up the facade and want to keep your pharma links private, just facebook me, you can be clyde, joe bloggs or julia, I dont care

    Reply
  31. Hans Litten

    Clyde et al , tell me what you score ? I am not convinced anyone here knows too much (Phds do not cut it necessarily),

    https://www.qzzr.com/c/quiz/158296/test-your-vaccine-knowledge

    Reply
    1. Clyde Davies

      Irrelevant. It’s a quiz targeted at the US. I live in the UK.

    2. Clyde Davies

      Anyway, having worked through the questions, it’s a highly tendentious quiz that asks mainly the wrong questions.

      Here’s a question for you: when was the last time you saw a child wearing leg calipers?

    3. àng

      விழித்து எவரும்
      Viḻittu evarum

    4. Clyde Davies

      Ang makes just as much sense in Tamil.

    5. Eric Bjerregaard

      Clyde, Perhaps you meant just as little sense in Tamil?

  32. àng

    இந்தியாவில் நீங்கள் எவ்வளவு செலுத்த 411staff என்ன?

    Reply
    1. àng

      வானிலை மும்பை நல்ல ?
      பணம் மும்பை நல்ல ?

  33. àng

    How did you know it was tamil?

    Reply
  34. àng

    So this whole thread has no moderators, no one in India knows english very well, and so the busllshit continues?

    Reply
  35. Clyde Davies

    Yes. Look it up.

    Reply

Leave a Reply to àng Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *