The destruction of New Orleans 02 September 05

Mark, what you said echoed my own thoughts precisely. Many of us here are very angry about the lame response as you put it. There is no doubt as to why we have failed so miserably in Iraq when we cannot even provide water to people “we” direct to a place of refuge and then they start dieing from dehydration and later “we” offer only “lame” excuses! The authorities knew the hurricane was coming and those supplies should have been ready to go “before” the hurricane hit. This is called “planning ahead”.

Furthermore, New Orleans had requested help to fix their systems and they had a near miss last year with a hurricane. This was actually preventable at some level. Now we have leaks in the system and the pumps do not work. The cost of prevention is far less than the cost of fixing a problem and this was a known problem with sufficient time to prevent disaster from happening.

And all this relates to the greater problems we face with energy, environment, and GW/CC. We still have time I must say to all of us on this blog community to prevent the greater disaster.

We need leadership that focuses on action to develop a better understanding of the science eliminating any uncertainty by funding what the scientist need and basically give them everything they want in the form of tools and manpower.

We need engineers to involve themselves with these scientist and ecologists to offer all remedial measures that can mitigate the problem and even restore balance. We need to make decisions which are more aligned with natural systems. We need to consider bold ideas and make decisions to implement them once we assess that the benefits far outweigh the risks. Then, we need to implement those ideas without delay.

We need leadership to help our people know what to do. We need a third political party and an American version of the Green Party would be useful. What I would like to see is a happy marriage between the environmentalist understanding of ecology and our technical ability so we can reinvent and revamp our infrastructure and work with the UK to do this world-wide.

Most important is education. We need to inform and level with our people and our people need to be fully engaged in solutions.

With regard to Peter’s thoughtful offer, I think citizens of the UK can help with continued dialogue with Americans they know through email and other channels. The UK has higher energy prices and a deeper understanding of GW/CC issues than most Americans do. With the current crises, we have accelerated our paradigm shift, so for the British, I encourage you to nurture your relationships with Americans as Mark once said in a blog. Form new relationships! You have much to offer us in support of our necessary and painful transition. We have bonds that go very deep and we have proven in the past that when we work together in alliance, we can meet any challenge as was necessary during the first half of the last century.

The people who know the most over here are a minority and at times are very isolated. I never feel that way because I participate on this blog and have formed deep friendships (off the blog) with many regulars who participate here. If it were not for Mark’s article on hurricanes in the Washington Post long ago, I may not be as focused as I am today. I would not even know who Mark Lynas is or the good people I met on this blog site. I stand in alliance with those who care about the future enough to change the course of future events to make the next century applaud our success to save the planet.

Failure, like the situation in New Orleans and our deep south here is too overwhelming to contemplate. It is not worth the anxiety and as time goes forward more action rather than more debate may be where we need to use more of our precious time. Our time should be devoted to measures which help and not hurt and encourage rather than discourage. This is everyone’s problem to solve and we need to help people know that and advise them.

Most of the people who post on this blog are highly intellectual, qualified, and intelligent people. I would say that the general public knows far less and that is especially true here. Even worse is that much of our leadership here knows even less than our people and even the Democrats offer little help as Robert Kennedy Jr decided that a wind farm in Nantucket may spoil his view. He is leading the people to fight it rather than set an example of having the first off-shore wind farm happen in America! Kerry wanted to lower gasoline prices by tapping the strategic oil reserves and blamed Bush for low gasoline prices during the campaign when we should have been taxing energy to promote energy efficiency all along. Leadership is lacking when we need it the most.

Whatever we are doing, we need to do more of it and have a continuing focus of self development since we may find ourselves in a leadership position. Unlike the example set by the authorities handling our present crises, we need to have a plan and be able to direct and lead people to what they need to do. We have to know ourselves. It is best we do this on a preventative level rather than pick up the pieces later. We must always strive to do our best because future generations are counting on us and we want to be held in a good light in their history books.

I will close with the idea that action in the face of uncertainty can lead to either success or failure but inaction invites the absolute certainty of failure! We may have to take a few “calculated” risks. We need a billion people engaged in solution at any level from turning a light out to those of us who know the most to share our understanding with others in a manner which they can understand.

All the best,

Dan

It would be nice when a disaster strikes an area prone to destructive winds and water to rebuild in a manner which will not encourage another wave of destruction when the next hurricane strikes.

I remember a news event last year where the reporters stayed in a dome house of a resident of Pensacola and his structure was more than adequate to protect him and his family from whatever the hurricane brought him plus the news reporters who needed a safe place to stay so they could later report all the destruction surrounding his home.

Even standard construction can be done in a more qualified manner. When Andrew hit, only the homes built by Jimmy Carter’s Habitat for Humanity remained standing.

The insurance companies should think about requiring rebuilding to much higher standards when funds are distributed to mitigate their future losses. And since our taxes go to relief and rebuilding efforts, then maybe this should become a public policy requirement.

As with my earlier post and echoing Mark’s focus, we need to build in alignment with nature and not destroy the surrounding environment necessary for our own protection. We may need to consider some areas off limit to any development as well.

All the best,

Dan

I started a sci-fi book several years ago set in the year 2080 in a city near Chicago, Aurora—so named because it was the first electric-lighted city in the world. By 2080 the name had been changed to Carsonville (after Rachel Carsons).

Many people were living in “hives” – mound-like structures that had six conjoined homes around a center with a strong-plastic covered “garden” where the six households could grow vegetables, flowers, & raise fish in a pond. The outer structure was completely earth-bermed up to the top in a dome-shape, and “windows” were electronic eyes outside that fed window-like screens inside. Many conventional structures were in shambles, though some were still standing. An extensive underground “pedway” for walkers, cyclers, and tiny electric cars doubled as a drainage system for floods (people & vehicles could get up to safety “hives” on short notice). The pedway protected people from the strong storms, tornadoes, winds, wildfires, and blistering heat that came from GW. Shops along the pedway had water-tight submarine doors that could be shut during floods, and had exits up to the surface.

A favorite, but dangerous past-time was to go scavaging among the Chicago ruins.

The plot entailed a rag-tag band of avengers, illegal aliens from Florida. Florida was no longer part of the Federated States of America (with its capital in Kansas), and Floridians were hopping mad because of being barred from entry to the FSA, and because of the past generations that had caused GW. They were out to kill all the still-living members and descents of the Congressional committee that had refused to address GW, and had later excommunicated (cut off) Florida when it became just too expensive to salvage from GW harms—esp. the hurricanes & sea rise.

Our heroine is a history professor at (on-line) Arrhenius U specializing on the 2045 gericide. She only knew she was a descendant of a Tuvalu refugee; her mother (now deceased) had been ashamed to tell that her grandfather had been one of those committee members, so she & the police didn’t understand why someone had killed her baby and was trying to kill her. They were striving to figure out who was after her before it was too late.

The name of the novel is DOOMER, after a book published in 2010 titled, THE BABY DOOMERS (about how our hippie-yuppie generation did next to nada to prevent GW). The curse word in 2080 then became (spit it out) doomer! (referring to those evil ones who doomed them). By then people were attributing every evil imaginable to AGW, including earthquakes, etc.

Unfortunately I don’t have time to write this up, but I do wish people would work with all their might to prevent such a scenario from happening.

It’s easy to sit behind your laptop screen snickering at the US and especially Bush “getting what he deserves.” Meanwhile many New Orleans/ US residents are dying. There is a time and place to finger point, politicize an issue or make your point. But, this is not it.

Many lives have been lost and many have had their lives turned upside down. No more job, no more house, no more place to live. Imagine if Katrina had hit London, Cambridge or Oxford. No one despite his or her beliefs about global warming deserves this!!

Katrina took out the lower half of 3 states! That means 1000’s of square miles of land was affected. Cities and small towns swallowed up and destroyed!!

There were around three quarters of a million residents who had to evacuate these areas. Over half of those were from New Orleans. Many citizens underestimated how bad the storm would be and ACTUALLY HEED the repeated warnings to leave the area or actually GET ON THE FREE BUSES which were running to get them out of town!

And now instead of fixing broken levee’s, re-connecting power and getting basic infrastructure going, the crews are tasked to rescue those who did NOT heed the repeated warnings to leave!! Trying times bring out the best in some and the worst in others… the media it would seem would rather film someone dying of thirst rather than hand them a bottle of water… pretty sad. The looters are unpatriotic interlopers.

One positive thing out of this is that the US will hopefully wake up to the reality that driving is a privilege not a right. Maybe congress will actually look at a multifaceted energy policy now.

I hope the powers that be will now do the right thing, both to help us reduce GHGs & prepare for worse to happen. I read there could be some 10 or so more hurricanes this season—maybe another one that hits my home in the Rio Grande Valley (Emily missed us by about 80 miles).

I sort of fear we may get to a point (maybe in a few years, or maybe decades) where simply coping with the effects of GW will be so money & time consuming, that we would not have the ability or will to work on reducing our GHGs. I was a bit dismayed that Bush has lowered pollution standards to allow lower quality petroleum to be sold (though I understand he wants to keep the economy from slipping & ICE vehicle-drivers from hollering). I’d hate that we get into this positive feedback loop that the more the GW harm, the more we have to pollute.

My husband, like Mark, is very upset that more isn’t being done about Katrina victims sooner – shouting, “Where are the helicopters that should be flying in relief?” My assumption at this point is that everyone was caught off balance. And apparently a lot of the emergency personnel in the area were also victims.

BTW, there is a woman from Scotland who was visiting New Orleans (her plane was landing while the people were fleeing). She is now stuck there (acc. to an NBC report), unable to even inform her family that she’s alive.

Hey! I think on the opposite…right now is the best time to be pointing fingers, because unfortunate as it is, people only listen once the tragedy has already struck. A city is just anoter city, filled with people unaware of their true surroundings, untill a little girl falls down a well, and an entire community will get together to help…..

This is the perfect time. People are stuck and desperate…they will listen. If i where Mark, i would go to New-Orleans right now and distribute a copy of his book to everyone, (they might as well read while they’re waiting). I would get on the highest roof top and sream like hitler! NOW IS THE TIME. Educate the people!

I heard on the news that many oil-rigs are missing but then nothing more about it. What happens to the oil when they gets torn up like that? Does not sound good to me at all.

And the chemicals in the plants on fire??? What kind of impact will that have?

I am so sorry for what the people there are going through. And what a shame it is, they (officials and others) KNEW that this could happen but no major plans, no effective aid, nothing. And there’s Bush walking around with that smirk in his face saying one stupid thing after another…..so sad.

Anna

WELL SAID. I agree with what Mr. Johnson said. Right now is not the time to point fingers – it is a time to raise up as human beings and help each other.

I am sad. The best way to describe it. SAD. I feel lost because I don’t know what to do. Emotions in this country are running very high. No one truthfully knows what to do. I want to help the survivors of this horrific hurricane but I feel guilty driving hundreds of miles to do that. Not to mention the fact that I can barely afford the gas.

We are all angry at our government – and we have every right to be. But the reality is Americans will keep driving gasoline powered cars, trucks and suvs because most of us cannot afford hybrids and if we all could we couldn’t buy them because there aren’t enough available for us. The gas prices keep going up and we can do nothing about it right now.

The American public is in a state of financial and psychological shock. My biggest fear is that Americans will be fed up with the prices of gasoline and pressure our government to drill more, mainly in the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge – instead of pressuring our government to find better ways to deal with the problems of energy in this country.

I am afraid that we are headed for more catastrophic storms and natural disasters that our country is unable to deal with and unwilling to change their habits to make them stop.

Thanks, Dan. And to return the compliment, I think much of the work being done by Americans to deal with Global Warming is leading the way for all of us – especially the chaps at www.realclimate.org; who have just written about Katrina. (If only the US could get rid of Bush & Esso!)

As regards implementing GW friendly technologies, in the UK we aren’t really doing that well – not nearly as well as the Germans.

As with many things, prevention is better than cure – and usually we are discussing what steps to take now to avoid problems in the future. With Katrina, there are people in immediate need.

I took up Lynn’s suggestion of trying to donate money to www.redcross.org, but, despite appearances, it only accepts Visa donations from US residents. I think charities are quite unused to dealing with an emergency in the US. I went to an Oxfam shop this afternoon – and they had no way of taking contributions for this.

Peter

Shame you did not write that book Lynn. I fully agree with the other comments on this site. We have an involvement with the current Environment Agency flood management plans in Wales in a number of areas, and the thinking behind them is not going to keep pace with the rate of change that is occurring, especially with the potential for coastal and esturine flooding in the next 50 years. We need housing that is not only ultra-low impact, but is also sited and constructed to withstand a far more aggressive climate.

But there is always hope, and mankind is an adaptable creature. The Rocky Mountain Institute has spawned an enormous outpouring of progressive thought on building design and fitness for use. In the UK also, the work of Bill Dunster and his team at the ZEDFactory practice is both visionary & practical: well worth a look : www.zedfactory.com/projects/projects.html

and from the Royal institute of british Architects site:

http://www.riba.org/go/RIBA/About/RIBALondon_3796.html

It may well be that Jimbo is right, that the thermal inertia in the oceanic systems will drive GW without any more GHG input, in which case we are ALL going to have to come to terms with the loss of much of our productive coastal land areas and learn to live elsewhere.

I don’t think a sudden evacuation of 7 million Londoners to higher ground would be either achievable, or welcomed by those already living there. Either way, we all need to think about the impacts of this for everyone, that will occur within our generation: how are we going to deal with the needs for food, energy and housing in a shrinking country with little or no oil?

best for now

Colin

You are right to be indignant, but believe me if anyone on this side of the pond looks at the appalling images on the TV and isn’t profoundly moved then they are foolish.

We would all want to help: did you note Peter Winters’ comment about the Red cross website in the US not taking CC donations from outside the US?. I contacted the UK Disasters Emergency Committee and was told they were ‘watching the situation’, but had not been asked to assist yet. What about the offers of help from the UN and NATO?

So if you know of a way that we can show our support, then please let us know. In the meantime, we must NOT be complacent in the UK. I know everything in the UK happens on a smaller scale and it is hard to comprehend the scale of Katrina’s destruction ( I asked the BBC 24news via their website to do an overlay of the size of the storm hitting , say, Southampton: it would cover most of the UK!!!) but have we really got such short memories?

Have we forgotten 1987 so soon? or the floods along the Essex coast in 1953 when 100’s died?

Do we really think it can’t/won’t happen to us and are we prepared? or are we all too busy looking for suicide bombers and shooting innocent Brazillians?

GW is no respector of geographical location, wealth or education.

I understand your anger Jim, but turn it to productive use: lobby for a rebuilding programme that not only allows survivability but also reduces the impact on resources dramatically. If Katrina has proved that much of the real estate in the Southern US is not sustainable, then it would be wise for an administration to plan its reconstruction on a much more precautionary priciple, not just rebuilding more of the same in the same place and sticking the finger up at GW in a gesture of misplaced patriotism.

We had a King who tried that once.

His name was Canute.

take care of yourself

Colin

The Real Climate website www.realclimate.org/ have now published their response to the debate about Hurricane Katarina, which is very interesting.

They stress that, although a single event is due, to a large part, to chance, there is strong evidence of a trend towards more destructive hurricanes. And that greenhouse warming and the natural oscillation have caused the present high temperatures in the Gulf at least in equal parts, so nobody can credibly blame one OR the other. They also say that it is far more important to ask what the future holds, and it will almost certainly bring us more Category 4 and 5 hurricanes. No change in the frequency of tropical storms predicted, but that really doesn’t matter – who cares about storms Lee and Maria that formed AFTER Katarina, but don’t sound scary at all.

The terrifying thing about New Orleans is that it gives us images of what will happen to one major city after another if we don’t stabilise the atmosphere very soon. I spent my summer holiday on the Outer Hebridies, and it was so very sad to hear people speak about the worst storm in everybody’s lifetime (even for those in their 80s) which hit Scotland this January. Only five people died then, but one of the most beautiful parts of the UK, rich in wildlife and with a human history going back nearly 6000 years is facing devastation from growing storms and tides – a couple more storms like this year’s, and depopulation might start in earnest.

We lived in Tallahassee, FL, when Hurricane Agnes struck in 1972. The next day, before they got police barracades up, we went to the Gulf some 20 miles away to take our niece & nephew swimming. All the houses near the beach build on cement slabs were demolished. Those built on wooden piles or posts (looked like stilts) were standing.

Is this a time to use the misery of thousands of americans, not to finger point, but to protect those who have neglected their duties?

Bush etal have had people from respected business, scientific, political circles, not to mention leaders of many other nations, advising, warning and pratically begging them to do something constructive about GW for YEARS. they have done zip. They were also warned and advised to do something about the levee defences in New Orleans. They did zip, diverting funds elsewhere (yes to protect oil sources).

The fact is a Presidents DUTY (duty is something he laughably keeps banging on about) is to guide and look after his people. He has failed. It IS time to finger point.

This is a blogg concerned with GW, it is surely a given we are all upset and concerned for all those involved. Here we should be looking to address the relevance of GW, and if lessons should be learned by from all this.

“The looters are unpatriotic interlopers”, I am not sure where patriotism fits in to this situation. strange comment! They might also be desperate, thirst/hungry, wanting to assist their families: too early to judge I would say.

This I agree with: “Maybe congress will actually look at a multifaceted energy policy now”, Bush is needed here too, to follow up on his encouraging noises made earlier this year.

Somebody is also to blame for the UNINTEGRATED coastal zone management that has gone on on the gulf coast; man made beaches up to 80 miles long, the disapperance of storm absorbing wetlands/mangroves and overdevelopment in an unsustainable manner, not that these would have stopped Katrina.

We as a species have to recognise that there are many parts of this planet which can be deadly, and to overpopulate them will lead to more shocking disasters, higher death tolls. Coupled with GW, these will all be amplified further.

These management issues are the responsibility of politicians. When they fail, they take the hits.

I’m defending no one person. Bush should have been more visible sooner during this tragedy. He is a more of a hands off president letting those in charge of agencies run them. In this case, that style of leadership will probably come back to bite him. But to say IF Bush had signed Kyoto or listened to all the communities about global warming THEN it would have prevented this hurricane is outrageous and a pathetic excuse to capitalize on the people’s misery and suffering of this disaster!

Most people with TV’s in the states have been watching the Katrina disaster unfold. It’s on 24/7. When the hurricane first hit on Monday, many newspapers headlines were “New Orleans Dodged a Bullet” but that was the day before the levee system broke. Flooding began on late Monday/ early Tuesday morning. There is going to be lots of blame to go around. But that is something to be done after all those who can get out, do get out! Saving life first and analyzing (and firing people) afterwards!

Comments about Bush gets what he deserves and lets pass out Mark’s book to New Orleans citizens are naive of the real situation here to put in nicely. I didn’t hear about citizens stranded in Mississippi or Alabama? I wonder why? The goal was missed in New Orleans plain and simple… people left to their own devices… nursing homes abandon… hospitals emptied of all but most critical… and only the local governments really know the minutia involved in all the “weaker/ critical areas” and those areas who will need first responders to go in and get them. I just saw a story about nursing home patients in one parish drowning in their own beds!! Sad! Heartbreaking! Yet the local government, to me, was best able to identify those types of situations.

As far as patriotism goes… one has to feel part of a country to understand that concept. Those looters stained the image of the US citizenry in the eyes of the world (thanks in no small part to the opportunistic media) and made it seem as if everyone behaved in that way (when it was a small few). Would you call the Muslim London bombers people just trying to express their viewpoint? I’d call them unpatriotic interlopers… deviants out for themselves in another’s country!

My point about hoping Congress acts on a better energy policy is genuine. The US needs to move to better energy solutions that are independent of other countries. Oil dependency is weakening America. I still like the energy backbone idea of building nuclear power plants across a backbone of the US on a superconductor type of line. Energy loss would be minimized and energy redundancy would be built into the system. Ideal for possible disasters and cleaner to the air.

Jimbo,

In your last post you compared the looters in New Orleans with the Muslim London bombers of 7/7 and 21/7. Your discription of the London bombers included unpatriotic interlopers….Devients out for themselves in anothers country.

I would like to stress a difference between the two groups. The good citizens of New Orleans have experienced a massive natural disaster they are tired, hungry, thirsty. They do not have access to clean water, basic sanitation and many have lost there homes. This is desperatly sad and when you combine these factors you are going to get very desperate people doing things they normally never would. People will steal to feed there familly, I would and I am sure in your heart you know that you would too.

Your president Mr Bush has just rushed through his “First down payment” of about 10 billion us dollars to start the rebuilding process.

I would like you to keep that 10 Billion number in your head, because it is the same amount of money America devivers in foreign aid each year. Admitedly 86% of that is in tied aid so it doesn’t really count. 10 billion is also the same as your citizens spend on pornography each year.

0f the 6 billion folk we share this planet with 1.1 billion of them have no access to clean water. 2.2 billion (about one in three of us) dont have access to basic sanitation and over 600 million are homeless.

You see the problem is not just in New Orleans. Desperate people take desperate actions. The London Suicide bombers did what they did. Because fellow muslims all across the developing world face the same problems that the good peole of New Orleans face today. I can not and will never condone the actions of these extreamist, however, I do understand a we bit about human nature.

30,000 people today dides of neeless poverty in the developing world, it happens every day, it is the same tragic clock of death ticking away. This poverty is preventable if we the developed nations assisted, or more realistically stoped being….How did you put it….Devients out for themselves in anothers country.

Prays to all effected in New Orleans. But not forgeing the folk in Africa.

Cheers Ian.

But there is a possibility that AGW has contributed at least something to Katrina’s intensity. Scientists tell me they could figure out how much, but with limited resources they focus more on the larger picture, not unique cases, and how found that AGW is contributing to increased hurricane intensity.

The frustration is that Bush is not addressing AGW properly. I think if he would simply get in the bully pulpit and tell Americans about it & what they can & should do to reduce it, that would have much more impact than simply meeting Kyoto’s anemic goals. So we in the anti-AGW campaign & potenital victims of AGW effects around the world are REALLY frustrated with Bush on this (no matter how good we may think he is on other issues). We are thinking of future hurricanes, and how we should be significantly reducing our GHGs to reduce our impact on them. Bush should be leading, and at least he shouldn’t be blocking (which he is doing).

RE looters – one person said: “If they’re white then they are ‘looking for food’; if they’re black, they’re ‘looting.’” I think we have to look at WHAT they are looting. If it is food & they & their families are starving, and there is no one in the store from whom to buy it from or sign some IOU with, then in my books that is OK, esp. if they later make some effort to repay those store owners. If they are looting diamonds, etc, then they are criminals, but not unpatriotic. With our U.S. crime rates (incl price gouging of gasoline) it seems quite the American way to do crime. That’s another issue we need to work on & change.

I’m assuming you haven’t gotten all the coverage we have in the states. The ones I’m talking about are the thugs who are shooting at the rescue choppers and rescuers, the ones who are shooting at stranded citizens, the ones setting the fires, the ones raping/robbing others and the ones who are stealing (TV’s, drugs, guns and other nonessentials) for themselves. It was only a few. It has settled down now but this was happening for a day or two before the national guard moved in. A few of them were killed in shoot outs with the police. These are the interlopers and a stain on humanity…

cheers

I was not going to comment on this thread because I am so angry about the way this disaster is being reported and how everyone with an agenda is using it to further that agenda.

Environmentalists Anti Iraq war people Race Baiters like Jesse Jackson and thats just the mainstream

GIVE IT A REST!

We haven’t even buried the dead yet.

Hi Colin & All,

I got a response from Oxfam (part of it is below), who say that I could make contribitions – but couldn’t get tax relief on it.

I’d dearly like to find a charity campaign that accepted UK CAF donations. That would add 67% to my contributions – quite a difference!

All the best,

Peter

FROM OXFAM …

“Thank you for your email about donating towards the Katrina relief effort.

Oxfam America is currently assessing the situation and has provided a first round of grants totalling $75,000 to three partner organizations in the area affected by Katrina.

I do not think that Oxfam America are able to take CAF card donations. If you are still interested in making a donation by credit card towards the “Hurricane Katrina Response and Recovery Fund”, you will be able to do so through Oxfam America please click on the following link: https://secure.ga3.org/02/katrina_fund , Or read our latest updates online at http://www.oxfamamerica.org/ “

The bodies wont be buried for some time, as awful a thought as that may be. My thoughts are with the support services who will go house to house and find and remove the corpses, a really tuff job. We all owe those people; like here in the UK, the people who got the bodies out of the Underground, days later, in extreme heat.

I have to say tho’ your comments are truly unhelpful. You are using emotional reasons to restrict freedom of speech, on a subject which could turn out to be even more important for the people of the gulf coast than anyone is presently aware.

If GW is impacting on hurricane frequncy/magnitude, then these subjects HAVE TO be discussed. And if research shows a link, this must be broadcast. Cos there will be bigger Katrinas.

Yes I have an agenda, anybody who partakes in this blogg has an agenda. I am keen to learn from others the state of research into whether GW is behind global meterological anomalies, thru reading this site. I dont appreciate being prevented from discussing anything (I live in a country where freedom of speech isnt just paid lip service). If I identify someone who has neglected their duty for years (yes u can include 9/11 in that as it happened on his watch too), and I can see its gonna contribute to GW, I will exercise my right to speak out, and blame when appropriate.

Jimbo: opportunist looters should never be equated with radical militant terrorists. Being an american you ought to have figured that one out (re 9/11). As for patriotism in the US, strange how soon as a disaster occurs, the rich flee with scant concern for those left behind, while those left behind rob the rich peoples houses. Not much of a togetherness there Jimbo, and togetherness is what patriotism should be about.

regards Brendon

Jimbo,

First of all, I did see the news here in the UK about the awfull crimes being commited and I do agree with you that these are disgracefull. The sad thing is, given what people are, I fear we have to expect this. dont get me wrong, I dont want to expect this I just accept that history has tought me that in desperate times people either show there best side or there worst side.

We can see that in New Orleans at the moment. Good people have been extraordinarily brave. I have seen reports of citizens rowing through the streets picking up survivors at great risk to themselves. We have seen the crimes that you have allready described.

My point is that the seans we have seen in New Orleans are the dailly reallity for many folk who we share this planet with.

My fear is that there lives are going to get much worse for a variety of different reasons. A good example is Global Warming. As sea levels rise, they will consume more and more land, forcing people in to smaller and smaller areas sharing fewer and fewer resorcess.

As this happens you will see basic things like food and especially clean water becoming the things that people will kill for. In farness they are allready.

I believe that being a citzen of this planet I have a responcibility to be the good guy on the rowing boat picking up suvivors. What saddens me is that my government and your government dont feel the same way.

A good example of this was the last G8 summit. We have as a group of 8 nations decided to give a total of $50 billion in aid each year starting in 2010. Would America be comfortable waiting till 2010 to help the folk in New Orleans? So why are we comfortable to wait till 2010 to help developing nations. Please remember that 30,000 folk each day die because we dont help them.

Dont you find that sad. A different question, do you want your government to be the guys on the rowing boat? Because right now I look at mine as being the guys with the guns in the street.

Please remember that one of the biggest things these guys are going to be harmed by is Global Warming, it will hit the poor and it will hit those by the coast. Just like New Orleans is today.

Cheers Ian.

Our local filling station has just posted diesel at £1.04.9 per litre That’s $7 per US gallon,

Regular unleaded is a bit less at 1.00.9 per ltre which is about $6.75/ US Gallon.

I have just taken all the unnecesary junk out of the car to reduce weight and pumped the tyres up; I think it’s got a long way to go up yet.

Funny the issue of ID cards has gone quiet in the UK press recently. As I think I mentioned before, the last time we had an ID card system in the UK, it was supposed to be a security measure due to an impending Nazi invasion: it’s real purpose was to control rationing.

“Roll out the barrel….....”

best to all

Colin

Found it!

http://www.redcross.org.uk/standard.asp?id=49121